43 | Create Highly Converting Landing Pages: Blending Human Insight with AI Execution with Audrey Chia, Founder at Close With Copy

Can AI really create high-converting landing pages better than humans? 

In this episode of Leveraging AI, Isar Meitis talks with conversion copywriting expert Audrey Chia on how to blend human strategy with AI tools to craft irresistible landing pages.

Topics discussed:

• The step-by-step process to research, analyze and optimize winning landing page frameworks
• Capturing your target audience's deepest desires and turn them into conversion gold
• Prompting ChatGPT for laser-focused audience research questions
• Teaching ChatGPT to think like you and structure high-impact copy
• Combining human creativity with AI-generated drafts to supercharge results
• The future of AI and human collaboration in marketing

About Audrey:
Audrey Chia is the founder of Close With Copy, a human + AI hybrid copywriting consultancy. She helps agencies develop bespoke AI writing prompts and creates high-converting digital copy. Connect with Audrey on LinkedIn to learn more about AI copywriting.

About Leveraging AI

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• Connect with Isar Meitis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/isarmeitis/
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Transcript

Isar Meitis: 0:00

Hello and welcome to Leveraging AI, the podcast that shares practical, ethical ways to leverage AI to improve efficiency, grow your business and advance your career. And I'm sure you've been paying attention, but there are thousands of AI tools out there today and many for almost any single task you can imagine in business and outside of business. And more are coming out every single day. And it's so confusing that so many business professionals are not seeing the forest for the trees because of that, because we're so looking for the right tools and forget that behind it, there needs to be a process, a strategy. And if we understand the process and the strategy on how to leverage AI tools for specific tasks, We can maximize the benefits and the tool, the specific tool is not going to be that important, which means we'll be able to keep on switching tools to better tools, but still maintaining the strategy in the process. Now, our guest today is Audrey Chia and Audrey is the founder of Close with Copy. And it's what she calls a hybrid human and AI copywriting consultancy. She has been posting incredible content on LinkedIn regularly. Really the first. Time she caught my attention was when she published the ultimate AI copywriting tool battle Which is probably the best researched LinkedIn content I've ever seen, like serious research with eight different copywriting tools and how they perform on multiple copywriting tasks from short form to ads to long form, etc. With the help of additional people who are experts on each and every one of these topics, really well done and really well presented. And that's the level of content that she's generating. And today we're going to focus on Audrey's expertise, which is how to write copy, but more specifically how to create landing pages that convert. And we use landing pages for multiple things in our businesses, but they're all at the end of the day needs to drive people to take specific action. And going back to what I said in the beginning, if what are the key strategies that you need to take, then you'll be able to use any AI tool in order to make your. efforts more effective and more efficient, meaning you'll end up with more landing pages that convert better. And this is really the thing that Audrey does very well. And so I'm really excited to have her as a guest of the show. Audrey, welcome to Leveraging AI.

Audrey Chia: 3:09

​Thank you for having me Isar. I'm so glad to be here and I'm really excited to share a lot more about learning pages and my secret tips and tricks.

Isar Meitis: 3:18

Awesome. first of all, Audrey, you're in Singapore, right? It's really late for you

Audrey Chia: 3:23

right now. Yes, it's a little bit late, but... I'm still looking fresh.

Isar Meitis: 3:27

So I know I appreciate your, you're a good sport. I'm just sharing with people, Audrey's, I'm here on the East coast. She's over there. So it's late in late at night, but she's very fresh and all energetic, probably even more than me. So let's, really get started with the high level. I know this is what you preach, but what are the steps, what are the key things before getting into the copywriting aspect of things that make a landing page or any copyright for that matter, successful?

Audrey Chia: 3:54

Yeah. before we talk even about content, you have to think about the strategy behind the content. Content without strategy is pointless. AI content without strategy is absolutely ineffective. I can say that because I have seen it, floating around. When you see something that sounds a lot like AI, you don't respond to it. And of course you can't convert because it doesn't sound human. It doesn't sound genuine and it doesn't tap into your audience insights. So to answer your question, the key thing for any copy that converts is actually your audience insights. Before you even write the copy, you need to figure out. What are your audience's pains, fears, desires, wants, right? Because you need to tap on their emotional triggers in order for you to help them to make a decision to purchase. And the triggers can come in both ways, right? It can be an emotional trigger or it can be like a logical trigger. For example, I need to purchase this for this reason. So I'm going to do this. That could be one kind of appeal. But beyond that, it's actually about what they feel inside. Because there are reasons why people purchase something. They want to feel more powerful, they want to feel loved, they want to feel less alone, right? So I'm actually always looking for these triggers in order to get them to convert.

Isar Meitis: 5:12

I agree a hundred percent, right? There's the known statement, right? That people buy with, by emotion and then they explain it to themselves, or they justify it with logic afterwards. And so we, the most maybe famous one that I always go back to is the grill commercial. And you don't see the grill, you see a backyard party, right? The grill is the center of because people are around the grill having beers, but whatever, but it's not showing the grill because nobody cares about the grill. You care about the outcome of what it's going to generate. You care about how it's going to make you feel. and so it's exactly that. So really let's start diving into your process. You're saying, starting with a strategy, starting with understanding your customers desires and fears and wants. How do you do that? What's your actual process that you do for yourself and for your clients?

Audrey Chia: 5:59

Yes. So firstly, when it comes to landing pages, you have to figure out what kind of landing page you are creating, because there are so many different types of landing pages. You have the brand landing pages, for example, something for Nike or Adidas, right? It's all about inspiring people. You don't see that much of a sales pitch there. It's more about, sharing a dream, for example, finding a greatness. And that's a really, Strong landing page for a brand, but there are also sales landing pages. Sales landing pages are the kinds where you read and it says you have to buy this because it's 99 off and you'll never get a discount ever again. So those are your sales landing pages. And I'm sure you have seen many of those as well. And of course there is like the funnel landing page where it's just. One headline, one submit, one call to action button. You can't scroll and the only thing you can do is to click the submit button. So that serves a certain purpose as well. And finally, you have what I would call conversion landing pages, which is what we'll be talking about today. conversion landing pages to me are landing pages that combine the best of brand. And sales in a really seamless way. For example, a brand is tapping. a client is tapping on an audience's insight, right? Or my audience has this fear. So I'm writing a certain message for the audience, but I'm not pushing it like a sales discount. I'm just using it and leaving it into my message. And I'm going to show you some examples of high converting landing pages that I love, so we have a better idea. Firstly, define what is the landing page and define what a good landing page looks like that is, even before you do any work into copywriting. So I'm gonna share my screen so that we have a better idea of landing pages, and I always say this some people like they hot shoes, some people hot bags. I love landing pages, I just have so many of them in my collection. Like saving, saving. Yeah. So you can see here, for example Mutiny, right? Mutiny is a brand that helps people to A, B test their website, right? And the headline goes, turn your website into your number one revenue channel. They didn't say A B test your website, even though that is what they do, they gave you the end benefit, which was turning it into your revenue channel. So this is an example of high conversion copy that combines the audience desire to want to earn more or help the company succeed together with what their product actually does. So this is like one example of what I would say is a conversion landing page. Another one could be something like this. I also like this brand a lot. it's, design as a service kind of tool that allows you to, get quality designs at scale, right? So here the headline goes, design at scale for ambitious brands. So you see what they did there. They didn't stop at design at scale. they continued. By saying this is designed at scale for ambitious brands, the word ambitious relates to the audience's desire to want to grow their company and to scale even faster than before. So you can see that they are playing on your emotions, even with just one or two words in the headline. And I think that's the beautiful part about it.

Isar Meitis: 9:20

Yeah. I think, going back to what you said, I think the thing we need to remember when we try to sell stuff to people is you're selling an upgraded end state of the customer. That's what you're selling. It doesn't matter whether you're selling a service or a product, what you're actually selling. is a better state of the person you're selling it to. And that could be, they will be more beautiful. They will have a more successful business. They will be able to entertain better. They will be able to run faster, but whatever you're selling an upgraded version of the business or the individual. And if you can find a way to state that what is that upgraded version that you're actually buying. And to touch on the two examples you gave, the really. Amazing skill of being able to do this right is to touch exactly on that on the thing your audience wants and the future state that you're going to sell to them with very few words, right? The first one was seven words. This one is one of three, six words. So very short and yet exactly to the point of touching exactly the right things.

Audrey Chia: 10:31

Yeah, and I think that's the beauty of landing pages and conversion copy, which is why I love it. there are many different types of conversion copy, but I think landing pages is an art and science. I see it as a craft, and I really enjoy looking at what other people have done and finding out why does it convert. So back to the question of how do we even begin this process? Firstly, define what is the landing page you're trying to create. So if you're creating a brand landing page, like what I mentioned for Nike, it will not look like something like this, which is probably better for a sales company. So what I would do if I were you is to figure out, okay, what are some top performing websites in my specific niche and why are they working? The goal is not to copy what they're trying to say here. The goal is to figure out why they're working and think about how you can integrate it into your own process. So taking a step back, right? For example, I have a few different sales landing pages here and I'm figuring out, okay, what do I like about it? What do I not? Why is it working? Why is it not? And then you figure out the commonalities, right? Or the similarities between each page. And you ask yourself, as an end user looking at it for the first time, how do you feel? Are you responding to it? Is the call to action strong enough? Are the features interesting for you? If so, what, how did they write it in a way that's interesting? So you can see there's a lot of thought behind breaking down a landing page and thinking what makes a copy convert. This even comes down to, for example, the structure of it. So many people don't know this or they think that it's the designer's job, to structure the landing page. When in fact, I would actually say that it's the copywriter's job because you're taking the audience through a narrative and you need them to, you need to put yourself in their position and think, if I am the reader reading this, what objections do I have? How do I counter their objections? What questions do I have? Then you need to think, how do I shift the audience? Has every single one of their pain points address as they read my landing page. So by the end of it, they should feel like, yeah, I think they managed to address all of my questions and concerns and I'm ready and interested to purchase. That is the goal of a beautiful

Isar Meitis: 12:46

landing page. A few questions. First of all, for those of you who can't see the screen, because you're listening to the podcast, Audrey has this document and I don't know which tool you're using. oh, it's Figma. So she has a Figma page with dozens. Of landing pages, the full thing, like you can see the whole scroll of each and every one of the pages. So you can actually go and research and compare and group them into different groups. So from going back to what Audrey said, from a research perspective, that's where it all starts. The first question that I have with regards to the research is you said, why does this page converts? I assume that's in your eyes. You don't have actual statistics of how these pages are doing. So how do you. How do you judge a good versus a bad landing page to pick what you're going to put on your Figma document as great examples?

Audrey Chia: 13:39

Yes. So I think it comes down to two things. One, of course, is your own personal experience and what matters to you. But the second thing is, if a brand is putting paid spam behind it and advertising for that landing page, there is a high chance that it is working, especially if it's a big

Isar Meitis: 13:54

brand. Got it. So you're saying, you're making the assumption that if somebody's paying for ads to drive people to that, there's a positive ROI to the process, meaning that page converts enough to pay for the ads and then some. Okay, that's fair. The second question that I have with AI related stuff. I am... In some of my lectures that I'm doing, I'm talking about the visual capability of AI today and the other thing that a lot of the AI tools definitely, ChatGPT today, it can actually browse pages. Do you use AI tools to evaluate? The landing pages as well, meaning one of the things I would do now that I'm looking at your stuff, I'm like, Ooh, I would take the five top or the 10 top that I like and say, put them to chat GPT and say, try to find commonalities from a marketing perspective. Why do you think these pages convert or which one do you think have better components and highlight them for me? Is that stuff

Audrey Chia: 14:50

that you do? That's a great question. And also a great use case. So prior to chat GPT's, image browser image feature, right? I was also doing it manually. But, actually just today, I wanted to test its capabilities to see if I could do that, right? I actually ran a test just before the chat to make sure I know I was talking about

Isar Meitis: 15:10

Cool. I promise I wasn't looking at your

Audrey Chia: 15:12

computer. Yeah, you read my mind. But yeah, it's, if, for you guys who are listening, on the podcast right now, I have chat GPT-4 on my screen and I uploaded an image of Mutiny's full landing page, an image of it, a screenshot, and I asked it to analyze it for me. So I asked it firstly to analyze the components of the landing page and it did pretty well. It has the header section, the value proposition section, the trust building section, feature section, and so on. And then, I also tested something else. I got it to Basically figure out, as an expert landing page copywriter. So I gave it a custom instruction, as an expert landing page copywriter, I switched it on. And then I also reiterate that you are an expert writer. Can you analyze the following? The tone of voice, writing style, the components and what makes it persuasive. And it did pretty well. So you can see here that it talked about the different components of my page. It talked about my writing style and my tone of voice, because this is another example I gave of my own landing page. And it even talked about the persuasive elements I included in my personal landing page, which is very accurate. So Audrey's is very impressed.

Isar Meitis: 16:33

So I want to touch on something here that I think is very important when it comes to using AI for these things. You are an expert, right? You know how to look at a landing page or 20 landing pages and find these components because that's what you do for a living. Most people don't, but now we have these tools that know how to do that at a professional level. And you can take more than one. You can say, I think these 10 are great. I don't know why, because I don't have the expertise that Audrey has, but you can load all 10 to chat GPT. And say, tell me what's common about them. Tell me what are the good things and the bad things in each of the pages. Tell me if I want to create a page that does one, two, three, and I might be jumping ahead here on your presentation, but. Help me build a page that will take the best out of all of these 10 pages. And my goal is to do X and my audience is Y and I'm sure you have examples on how to do what I just said, but I think the capabilities of the tools. of chat GPT today to a browse and B look at images is something we did not have a month ago and is magical for these kinds of

Audrey Chia: 17:43

things. Definitely. And I think it's, I always say AI is able to empower people, who are writers and who are not as well to do. Things at a scale like never before, right? So even if you're not a professional copywriter, you can use the tools to your advantage and get to really high conversion copy. But at the same time, if you're a writer, say, at this point in time, you don't have to be afraid of AI taking your job. What you can do is learn how to utilize it even more effectively. And you must remember that the playing field is going to change, right? But at the same time, all landing pages are going to be even more optimized. So the only way for you to win is still to have the human element, right? How do you add the human insight, the human element, the human storytelling back into your page, because when all the new pages eventually are AI optimized, what is going to stand out? It's the people and their stories and their experiences or their unique perspective that I think is going to make a difference.

Isar Meitis: 18:41

Awesome. I will add one more thing and then we'll continue to what's the next step after the research step. In general, to generalize what you said, I think in the AI era, human relationships are going to become even more important because everybody will be able to do everything pretty damn well. the average content, the average landing page, the average proposal, the average research paper, the average, everything is going to be. 5X better than it is today, just because AI can help anyone get to that level. So what's going to make the bigger difference is people who on the human level can understand their clients, can develop human relationships. And that's going to be a key differentiator, definitely in B2B businesses, but also in B2C marketing, like we're talking, right now. So what's the next step? We do our research, we understand, what's a good landing page. What's the next step in

Audrey Chia: 19:35

your process? Yeah, of course, the next step is to figure out how do you prompt for it, right? My process is always very specific. It's a three step process, human strategy, AI execution, and then human review. you need to go through these three steps in order to make sure that your landing pages are still on point and you'll be maintain like the quality of it. if you compromise on any of these three stages, the output is not going to be as fantastic as what you're looking for. what I would also do in addition to this research is, I would like to use AI to support me in developing audience insights. There is a way to do that. Ideally, you get your audience's transcripts and you put in the chatGPT and you just pump a prompt in that says, tell me, what are the painpoints from this full list of transcripts? So that is option one. option two is you get chatGPT to put itself. The shoes of your target audience to answer questions that it creates. So it sounds a bit meta, but basically you can get chatGPT to develop a list of questions for your company and then say, now, can you put yourself in the shoes of my audience and tell me how would you answer those questions that actually works surprisingly well for ChatGPT-4

Isar Meitis: 20:55

for. That's brilliant. so basically you're starting with it, looking at it from the brand's perspective, and then you change the roles around and saying, okay, now you're a customer, you define to it what it is, right? What customer it is. And saying through that eyes, do you have an example of a prompt on how you do that? Because that's,

Audrey Chia: 21:16

That'd be cool. Yes. let me pull it out. I have a prompt here. So I could, like the way I use AI, It's really fun for me because I just see as a tool to support me in different parts of my Strategic thinking or research process. So I don't actually think that you have to use it only for execution. There are many ways to use it to your advantage, and to create a kind of like workflow, there's a lot smarter. So there are always smarter ways to do this. I always been telling my clients who my work with me. So let me share my screen. yeah, so this is, one of the. Many prompts that I have created as you can see here. I have different ways to prompt for Target audience research, right? So for example in this prompt, I'm actually getting chat GPT to Develop a full list of questions for me Before I even launch into creating any kind of creative assets. So for those of you who can't see it, it says, as an experienced audience researcher and brand strategist, please develop a series of deep and detailed interview questions to help me gain audience insight. So I'm not even jumping to the audience insights part yet. I'm saying I want questions. Let's start with that. So I break down the entire process into very granular parts so that the output is hyper specific. It's as though I'm doing myself, but now I'm getting AI to do it. So I guess you can, put it through chat GPT to see how this looks, right? So I'm just going to pop it in here. I will create a new tab and I will switch off my custom instructions. Then I'll pump it here. So for example, I'm going to type in what my brand is closed with copy, and then I will tell it what I do. So we are a hybrid human AI copywriting consultancy. First on helping agencies develop bespoke prompts, and then now I'm getting chat GPT too. Provide me with three questions for each of the points that I included in my prompts. So I'm asking it for demographics, psychographics, channels, and so on. And now ChatGPT will give me three questions or four questions each for each section. So I'm going super specific into the question there first, right? And now it's telling me demographics, four questions, like what is your age range, what is your gender, or where do you reside? What's your occupation? All the way to like channels, what online platforms do you use? What types of content do you prefer? How much time do you spend on these platforms? So this is a very comprehensive audience insight research toolkit that I use, not just for landing pages, but specifically for different, marketing strategies or ad creation. So you can see it's very robust. It's not everything you need for a landing page, but it's a great starting point. yeah.

Isar Meitis: 24:14

I'll say one thing before, before we continue, which is there is huge power in reiterating with playing with these kind of longer prompts to do things very specific and saving your prompts to a prompt library. So Audrey's using notion, but you can use Google docs. You can use, ClickUp. You can use, I use magical Chrome extension, which is already in the browser, and then you don't even have to copy and paste it, just type it into anything, but it's. It's you have to Continuously upgrade your prompts and you have to save the ones that generate the right results for you. It is even more important when you're in an organization of people, not just one person, because then you want the best prompts to be used by multiple people, not just one person. So on one hand, keep on researching and trying new things, but every time a new thing works, save it somewhere so we can reuse it across, but this is a really. Great start. Like you're saying, because now you have all the list of questions across multiple aspects of what you want to know about your audience.

Audrey Chia: 25:24

Yeah. And I agree with you about saving the prompts. So I used to be really messy. Then I was like, I did this before, but I can't remember. So I had to go in. I had to go in and re, re, re prompt. And like a prompt is like solving a puzzle, right? Once you found the code to this puzzle, save the code. Okay. Do not forget it. It will take you another few hours to figure it out again. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that what has your is a list of three questions for a different, basically buckets, right? I gave it. So it's giving me questions about the audience's pain points, their fears, their desires, motivations, channels, and so on. Then we move on to part two of the prompts, right? here I have a, let me see this. There are two options, like what I said, right? One is you could ask it to analyze the transcript that you are uploading, but in this case, we don't have a transcript of the audience, right now. So what we're going to do is to get it to pretend to be the audience. So I'm just going to have this here. yourself in the shoes of the interviewee and answer the following questions in detail. You can see the magic for yourself. This is a very powerful prompt that, I don't think people are utilizing as much as they should because chat activity is actually great at thinking about an audience persona and answering questions

Isar Meitis: 26:46

in that way. But in this particular case, you did not define the exact persona, right? You're just letting it answer the questions.

Audrey Chia: 26:54

Yes. So what you can do is if you have someone in mind, you can definitely do that, but this is just an example of how you could run it. This is really cool. Yeah. But if you already know who you're looking for, so for example, I'm targeting, agency owners, All web design agencies, then I'll be very specific. The web design agency owners size 10 to 50 employees looking to scale, then, it would get a different kind of output. Yeah, and if you can see the output here, it's it says oh, I'm in my mid thirties, based in New York. I work as a marketing manager. My lifestyle is pretty busy. I'm juggling work, networking events, personal development courses. I value creativity and efficiency, and then I'm on YouTube for relaxation or, I like watching marketing strategy videos and occasionally digital art tutorials. So you see how specific ChatGPT is in crafting a persona. It is so good at that I'm like always blown away. And it talks about their audience's pain points, right? So for example, I have a basic understanding of AI, but I am no expert. I would, I want to try to use AI more in copywriting, but I don't know how. I try to apply new insights after I learn something, and I'm always experimenting with new strategies and tools. So pretty good for a prompt. Yeah, what happens next is, okay, this is an example of how you can gather audience insights, right? Ideally, you need to speak to a real human being, but if you can't, this is a great option too, right? Now you combine your knowledge of what makes a talk fun. What you want to do is figure out like your top performing frameworks, right? And figure out how best you can, how best you can put them together. So let me show you what this looks like.

Isar Meitis: 28:40

So while you're opening it, I just want to go back and reiterate the steps that we've done and combine some of them together. The first thing is. Getting inspiration and understanding what's a good landing page, right? From other landing pages. So just do the research and find the components that you like. Step two was to understand your audience, right? Build your own strategy. So figure out who's your target audience, figure out all the questions that you have about them, figure out what questions you need to ask them, to understand, and then. Preferably actually perform these kind of interviews. if you cannot use chat GPT and probably the best option is the combination of the two. So like Audrey said, you can interview people, take the transcript of the interview, load it to chat GPT as a first step, and then a, ask it to analyze it and B. Create additional ones based on the ones you've already uploaded. So you can get additional insights based on the answers you got from real people. So these are the steps so far. So what are we doing next?

Audrey Chia: 29:41

So the next step is to get chatGPT to, put everything together again. I would say that prompting is. There is no one fixed way to prompt. I'm just going to show you that one way, and there are many ways you can explore. in my case, I have custom instructions on, for those of you who are not familiar with custom instructions, basically you can give ChatGPT a rule and the kind of response you're expecting, and you can save it in your, GPT file. And I use this tool called SuperPowerChat GPT that allows me to have many custom instructions. So you can see, I have everything from a growth consultant to a LinkedIn carousel maker, to a brand copywriter, performance strategist, and of course, a landing page copywriter. So I think of it as my supercharged interns, right? I have 10 of them all doing different things. Great stuff.

Isar Meitis: 30:30

And so just to touch on that. In today's new world, which again is available to us for, I don't know, two weeks now, you can do this without this external tool just for building GPTs, right? So you can build different GPTs to be different personas to do different things, and build different custom instructions and different background documents or whatever you want for each and every one of them. But this is pretty cool. I did not know this particular one. It's what, if you're not seeing the screen. It's custom instructions, but with a drop down menu. So then, instead of having one custom instructions, which is the biggest problem of custom instructions, that there's one of them. That's why I don't use them that much. I just use like my prompt library as custom instructions, but this is actually pretty cool.

Audrey Chia: 31:12

Yeah, and I always look for ways to streamline the process, right? So if you find any tool that is effective, just use it to help you organize things and you can always get access to them. So on my end, I have a landing page copywriter custom instruction. I'm getting ChatGPT to understand my profile, and I'm telling it that I'm a highly experienced conversion copywriter who specializes in developing highly compelling landing pages. I'm great at capturing the brand's tone of voice, style of writing, and combining it with a clear, powerful vision. And then in terms of the output, I'm saying the output should tap into the key insights of my audience and capture the nuances of my brain. Please dig deep. So I'm going to switch this on and give me a second. Yeah. So what you want to do, is to figure out the next steps, right? So now you have a profile, you have. Lots of ideas on what a great landing page looks like, your audiences pinpoints and so on. So what do you do next? So you can actually create a prompt that allows you to combine the different, your different nuggets of knowledge together. So I can write something like, I want you to develop a landing page for my brand. Here are some guidelines to follow. And what I would include is the company name, what we do, the target audience. The tone of voice, the call to action, and I will also include some of your audience insights. If you already have some that is specific to your brand, you can include them into your prompt as well. And I'm going to be able to structure the output that I want. So when you're asking creativity, please write a landing page for me and not giving it enough context. It's going to give you, paragraphs of information, and trust me, you don't want that. what you need to do is to be hyper specific about what you're looking for. For example, I'm looking for, a hook, a hero section with a headline, a subhead, a call section. I can even be very specific about, the hook needs to achieve this objective. Or the hook needs to be six words long. That's how specific you can be when crafting a prompt, right? you can have section two for our clients or for example, social proof, where you add your news features. and then you have a section for why us, what is our cell and the section for key descriptions. Social proof, and so on and so forth. So just think of it as a Lego, puzzle piece, right? Every single piece is a building block. I'm just piecing together different blocks to form a new whole. of course, this is like a

Isar Meitis: 33:45

Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. Going back to what we did in the beginning, right? We analyzed multiple landing pages to figure out why they work that gives you this outline, right? It gives you that structure of these are the sections that I want. This is the order that I want them. These are the components I want in each section. This is based on the original research. You can literally take that as is and put it in this prompt in order to now have. A new prompt that will start generating the content into these sections based on the instructions that you gave it and the brand and

Audrey Chia: 34:17

et cetera. Yes. So you can tell, right? When I'm prompting, it's not just I'm like, I'm not, I'm never blindly prompting and just saying I'm always giving it my way of thinking. So if you can, Teach chat GPT to think like you or give it a kind of systematic process to follow. Then you will see that the results are going to be so much better. And even when it comes to tone of voice, you can train it on a set of examples for your personal tone of voice. So they understand how to write and how to sound like you. So for the current example, I'm going to show it's a very simple prompt. I didn't really include. Too many examples or additional, extra juice, right? But I just want to show that what it could look like, just with this very, very basic prompt. So chat GPT for is running right now. And it's going to tell me like what I can do with the information I gave it and it gave me some, it will break it down into different sections. For example, your hero section, your client sections, and so on and so forth, depending on the framework you gave it. So it's giving me back copy according to the framework I'm feeding it in my original

Isar Meitis: 35:23

prompt. And again, to tell you how incredible what we're doing is to put things in perspective. We started with nothing, a blank sheet of paper, which is the hardest thing. We looked at multiple landing pages. We helped, we use ChatGPT to identify the key components sections and what's in each section. We then use ChatGPT to identify the target audience and what are its pain points. And now we're combining that together, the framework that we've identified that works together with the insights about our audience. And we've done all of this. And yes, it's a simplistic example, but we've done all of this in less than 30 minutes. This process used to take weeks. And yeah, you may need iterations to go through that and to get to the level of prompts that Audrey has. But once you have it creating new landing pages can happen significantly faster and probably getting better outcome than what you're doing today.

Audrey Chia: 36:23

Yeah, definitely. I used to take about two to three weeks to create a landing page. I can cut it down to two days because I still have a lot of the strategic part involved. So the quality of content has to remain. but that's just the time savings I have managed to achieve. So you can see here, like chat GPT has given me like an example of, what a landing page could look like. So the hero section, it says elevate your copywriting with AI powered precision. Subhead says custom AI frameworks tailored to your brand. call to action says book your consult now. So even when I'm reading it out, my mind's really thinking, how do I sharpen the copy so that it's sounding a lot more persuasive because sometimes chat at GPT will give you like a longer form copy that you may not necessarily want, for example, it's saying custom AI frameworks. Tailored to your brand's unique voice. Whereas what I just said is custom AI frameworks tailored to your brand. There you see, just trimming it, using it as a base. Then you trim the words and you move things around to make it a lot sharper and punchier. That's how you really maximize it. So in section two, it has our clients. It says trusted by leading brands and agencies. Section three. Why revolutionize your copywriting with AI expertise? So I wouldn't use the word revolutionize. I think it's cliche and overused. So with that, I could ask chat GBT to give me 10 more options, remove cliche words, so then it would give me 10 other options that I can consider.

Isar Meitis: 37:52

Yeah, I love what you're saying. So ChatGPT in general loves. really bombastic adjectives, right? It's Oh, like big words like that, that have been used way too often. And the way I use it very similar to you, I'm like, I don't this kind of word because one, two, three, give me five different variations of that sentence. And then what I usually end up doing is I end up combining them like using some of the components, but it's just, again, not starting with a blank sheet of paper. Now I have several different ideas and Oh, and I use the same process for naming my podcast episodes. I use the same process when doing blogging. I use the same process when I create slides for presentations, I give on stages, same kind of thing. Going back to something you said that I talk about a lot, people think that the outcome of the copyright is the biggest thing with ChachiPT and it's actually wrong. The biggest thing is An ideation partner that is really good at coming out with great new ideas based on the concepts that you've identified. And this is exactly what you're doing here. And it's absolutely brilliant.

Audrey Chia: 38:54

Yeah. And the beautiful part is that it's such a great starring partner. okay. I have some other tips at the end. I'll share with you. It's really fun, but the way I use it is I, it's my best friend. So anyway, over here, he has like the key benefits, And he even gave me pretty good key benefits. It says tailored AI integration is one enhanced brand consistency as a second one and scalable solutions. Pretty good USPs, um, social proof before, after, and even case studies. So what actually happened is I've read my own custom prompt, right? So I actually use the custom prompt to view V1 of my personal landing page. And I refined the copy of course, to give me what I want. So this is an example of what an actual output will look like if you combine AI and human and my headline goes supercharge your growth again I'm, not just saying AI human i'm saying what is the end output for the user, right? Supercharge your growth with human AI copywriting and then I explain bespoke AI frameworks and conversion copywriting designed to help your business scale with speed And then I even have an introduction part of you have two options in today's AI marketing landscape Bring it and hope your content somehow keeps up or embrace the power of AI blended with human strategy. And then you have two boxes that says 99 percent of businesses are stuck in lane one, but the 1 percent they are sprinting fast. So even here, you can see there's a lot of human psychology behind it. Cause I'm tapping on the fear of missing out. I'm tapping on the need to get ahead. And I'm tapping on, this is what's happening in the world right now. If you don't respond now. You're not going to be able to keep up. So there's a lot of thought that goes behind

Isar Meitis: 40:32

copy. I got to ask you two questions about this particular section. Yeah. for those of you who are not seeing it, she read what's the copy, but there's two blocks, one that says like visual blocks, like actual boxes, one that says 99%. In big font and in that says of businesses are stuck here in lane one and one percent in the other box saying they're sprinting fast. Two questions about this. How much of this was ChatGPT and how much was you? If you remember, I don't know how old this landing page is. And question number two is today, something that I'm doing today, ChatGPT can create graphics. do you use ChatGPT or MidJourney or whatever the case may be to help you create the graphics for the landing pages as well? Or do you still use traditional methods like going to a graphic designer or going on, one of those image repositories? what's your process when it comes to the graphics of those pages?

Audrey Chia: 41:28

Yeah. So for question one, this copy was generated by AI for LinkedIn. So I'm using AI for different kinds of content, right? Sometimes I get inspiration to, to have a, like a style writing for a certain page, but I think okay, I can actually, add it to my landing page. So you can see that AI can be used for different execution, then it's up to you, which is that you're the artist, right? How do you bring all the different parts together and create a new painting? That's what I love about it. And I think AI created this, but not for this landing page. It was for another page. it in. So that's the cool part. In terms of visuals, there are two things you need to know. If you want to be able to prompt for the right visuals, it takes a lot of time, I have art director friends who are really good at Midjourney or other AI visual tools. For them to create one image, they take a hundred different generations to find a perfect image. So if you're like me and we are, I'm a creative myself, so I'm a very, I'm a stickler for images. And if it's not the right vision, I think I'm going to be generating like 1000 images because I have something in mind, yeah, and it's really hard to get to the end output at this point in time if A) you don't have the art director's kind of expertise in knowing how to guide it to a perfect prompt, because you're going to get a visual, sure, but is it exactly what you're looking for? Maybe not. And number two is there are tools that make it really easy for you to generate images. But as of this moment, the more easy to use tools, I would say that the visuals are still slightly questionable. They look very AI like. You always see them with neon colors or the image students artificial because you're not sure how to get there yet. So these are the two main challenges I face. But I think moving forward, it will be easier and easier for people to figure out how to prompt without that much prompting knowledge. So I think that will

Isar Meitis: 43:27

change. Yeah. I'll add to that. Great points, by the way. I think, we're still at a point that experts will get better results using these tools. Yet it depends on what is it that you're trying to do, right? If this is the landing page that your business depends on, then you probably want to hire an expert. If it's just a landing page out of 25 that you have that needs to do something. What I found that's very helpful in going back to the capabilities that ChatGPT now has that he did not a few weeks ago is. I use it to brainstorm the ideas for the actual image, because ChatGPT generated what's going to be on the page, right? It's, it knows what's in the section, it understands the context of the page and the audience and what we're trying to do. And I'm like, okay, give me three ideas of what could be the graphics that will accompany this section. And it usually, I usually really one of the three. And I usually the other two are lame, but then I ask it to go in the direction of that one of the three and give me three ideas in that direction. And then I pick one of them and ask it to create several different variations of the graphics. So yes, it helps me come up with the ideas, but then once the idea formalizes in my head, I do want to do things. I either crystallize it back and forth with ChatGPT, or I take the idea, I became pretty good at MidJourney. I'm not incredible. I know people are way better than me, but I'm good with MidJourney. And so when I know, I already know what stuff will be better in MidJourney than ChatGPT. And then I just take the idea. Craft a mid journey prompt and get the results from over there. And I got to the point that I'm very happy with the graphics that I'm getting. And I'm not spending a stupid amount of time. I'm spending time, but the graphics makes a very big difference. Like you're saying, I will run 20, 30 variations of something before I pick the one that I really like, but. Those 20, 30 variations will take me an hour, right? Yeah. It's not going to take me three days to, to go through stuff and so on. And it becomes very specific, meaning it's not a random image off the internet of something that I think would fit. It's actually exactly the idea that I wanted, that I think represents the best, that section of the landing page or that post on LinkedIn, or. that, or that, that slide that I gave in presentations on stages. And so I think the, again, going back to what we discussed, the ability to ideate together with ChatGPT to, to come up with ideas and then find different tools to do that is definitely an option people should consider.

Audrey Chia: 46:01

Yeah. And at this point in time, I can also share like two other tools, that people could consider as well for building landing pages. I, the web designer that I worked with, Adrian, he's used Framer. if you guys haven't already, heard of this, it's a super powerful tool for web design and it can either help you to create a full landing page with copy and visuals with just a single prompt. So it's really powerful. But, B, if you have a specific... Kind of output in mind. It allows you to quickly plug your design into the software as well and get the output that you're desiring. if you guys haven't tried it, this is really good. If you don't want to hire a web designer, this is also a very handy tool. It's visually and aesthetically pleasing as well. The other tool is called,

Isar Meitis: 46:52

just so people understand, I know, put the notes in the show notes. It's framer.com. That's the tool that Audrey just mentioned.

Audrey Chia: 46:59

Yes. the other

Isar Meitis: 47:01

way, what's the, what's the outcome of this? Does it generate HTML code? What's, what does it, what's the

Audrey Chia: 47:07

deliverable? You get for example, here, you get a fully, landing page and you can publish it and get it live. So what it actually does is it even generates the copy for you and the sections, and you can custom the colors. The reason why I didn't use it for my copies, because I'm very specific about the copy of what I'm looking for. So again, it depends on what is the quality of the output you're looking for, right? If you're okay with like generic AI copy content, then cool. Go with it. But if you are like me and you are very specific about audience insights and sections, and you really want to optimize for conversions. They probably need a bespoke kind of copywriting prompt instead of a, a tool like this, because this is easy to use, but it's not going to be as specific as what you're looking for. Yeah. the other tool that I was saying, it's called durable. co, it allows you to also very quickly view a website and for durable, right? Like the kinds of designs that they have, I would say a little bit more mainstream. Framer is more artsy, more graphics, durable, has more mainstream visuals, meaning things for corporates. Thanks for an e comm store, or if you're running a brick and mortar, these would be great images in a great layout for your company as well. So these are two cool tools that you can check out. and what you can actually do is use chat GPT to prompt for the copy and then use durable or framework to get in a design and then you can just combine them together.

Isar Meitis: 48:34

Phenomenal. Audrey, this was absolutely fantastic. I think we touched on a very deep level of understanding, but also the tactical tools on how to actually implement that. And I really appreciate you coming and sharing with us. If people want to follow you, work with you, learn more from you, what are the

Audrey Chia: 48:53

best ways to do that? Yeah. again, if you didn't already catch this, I built Bespoke AI copywriting prompts for brands. So I'm combining human strategy and thinking with AI execution. I love finding smarter ways to scale. So you can contact me. At audrey@closewithcopy.co or find me on LinkedIn, Audrey, CHIA, or find me on my website www dot close with copy co.

Isar Meitis: 49:24

Awesome. Thank you so much. This was really great. Thank you for having me.